Kelbrook Mutual Insurance / BG-Demo – Renewal
Callcompleted
Kelbrook Mutual Insurance · 9 Jan 2026 10:00
On 9 Jan 2026, the CFO said he would decide nothing on the call and wanted every figure with its base. Procurement confirmed the MSA and DPA stay unchanged. Usage and the 80-user count are the board's likely question.
What was said
What this says
As at Fri 9 Oct 2026On 9 Jan 2026, the CFO said he would decide nothing on the call and wanted every figure with its base. Procurement confirmed the MSA and DPA stay unchanged. Usage and the 80-user count are the board's likely question.
What happened: Tom Ashdown framed a further twenty-four months on Growth, 80 users, billed annually in advance. Malcolm Hebden, the CFO, said he would take it to the board and come back.
Customer view: Malcolm questioned paying for 80 licences with usage down about a quarter. Rebecca Ainsworth said she wants to keep B-Viz but needs a case that holds up.
Commercial: Tom quoted £56k a year from the current order form and said the CRM shows £116k as the renewal total. He promised a written breakdown, and could not confirm whether the price is unchanged.
Watch: The term ends 16 Jan 2026 and the board date is unknown. Tom owes an answer on a gap after that date, and the user-count question is unresolved.
Themes
As at Fri 9 Oct 2026Theme
Board-gated Growth renewal
Importance
renewal
Sentiment
mixed
Voice
decision-maker
Who was there
BG-Demo
CRMmade from
Them
CRMmade from
Follow-up
Next steps
As at Fri 9 Oct 2026- Tom Ashdown to send a written breakdown of the total with its base, tied to the signed order form, and confirm whether the price has changed.
- Marcus Bell to send a usage note by team with the breakdown, and book refresher sessions with underwriting and claims.
- Tom to email Philip Nuttall confirming the MSA and DPA are unchanged, and to check what happens after 16 Jan 2026.
Risks
As at Fri 9 Oct 2026- The board date is unknown and the term ends 16 Jan 2026, with no confirmed position if there is a gap.
- The CFO will question paying for 80 users while usage is down about a quarter.
- The CRM total of £116,000 has no stated base, and the customer wants every figure tied to the order form.
Opportunities
As at Fri 9 Oct 2026- Procurement confirmed the MSA and DPA continue unchanged for the renewal term.
- Rebecca Ainsworth wants to keep B-Viz and will push the team leads to attend refresher sessions.
Transcript
Tom AshdownMorning, morning. Can everyone hear me alright? I've got the little bars bouncing so I think we're live.
Rebecca AinsworthMorning Tom. Yes, I can hear you. Marcus, you're on mute, I can see your mouth going.
Marcus BellSorry, sorry. Morning all. Is that better?- Rebecca AinsworthMuch better.
- Tom AshdownBrilliant. How's your week been, Rebecca? Everyone alright up there? It's been proper grim down here, rain sideways since Tuesday.
- Rebecca AinsworthSame in Leeds. Busy, though. I had a church treasurer ring the helpline on Wednesday, lovely man, their boiler room flooded over the weekend. And the relationship manager already had the policy and the earlier claim open in front of her. He didn't have to explain a thing. That's what I keep telling people this is for.
- Tom AshdownThat's a good one to start on. No drama, that's exactly the thing.
Malcolm HebdenGood morning, everyone. Before we begin, may I ask what has changed since the last order form? I have the original in front of me from January 2024, and I would like to be sure we are all reading from the same page.- Tom AshdownMorning Malcolm. Fair question, and short answer, not a lot. Same tier, Growth, same 80 users, and the term we're talking about is a further two years. I'll keep saying the same thing so it's clear what we're looking at. Leave that with me, I'll walk through it properly.
Philip NuttallMorning. Philip Nuttall, procurement. I'm only on the first half of this, I've another meeting at half ten, so apologies if I drop off early.- Tom AshdownNo problem at all, Philip. We'll make sure we get to your bit early. Right, so for anyone who hasn't seen it, the current contract ends on 16 Jan 2026, which is next Friday, and the renewal date on our side is 17 Jan 2026. So we've got about a week, which is tighter than I'd like, I'll be honest.
- Malcolm HebdenYes. And that is rather my concern. A week is not a long time for a board to consider anything.
- Tom AshdownUnderstood. I'll come back to that. Let me just say what I think we're agreeing today, and you tell me if I've got it wrong. Twenty-four months, billed annually in advance, 80 users, Growth tier throughout. Is that how you've got it written down?
- Rebecca AinsworthThat's what I understood, yes. Though I'd say, Malcolm and I haven't fully sat down on it yet. I don't want to agree terms without him.
- Malcolm HebdenQuite right. And I should be clear, I will not be deciding anything on this call. I would like to hear it, take it to the board, and come back with an answer. What does that commit us to, and for how long?
- Tom AshdownFair. So it commits you to two annual payments, each one in advance. The annual figure on the current order form is £55,800, and that's what's been invoiced to you each year. I'd want to confirm that against the signed copy before anyone relies on it, but that's what I'm seeing.
- Malcolm Hebden£55,800 a year. Over the full term, please. What is the total, and on what base?
- Tom AshdownRight. Now this is where I need to be careful, Malcolm. In our system the renewal deal is showing £116,000 as the total value. I'm not going to guess at how that's built up from memory. I'll get you a written breakdown that ties back to the order form, line by line, before you take anything to the board.
- Malcolm HebdenI would be grateful. I do not accept a figure without its base. If the total differs from two years at the current annual amount, I should like to see precisely why, and in writing.
- Tom AshdownAbsolutely. Fair, and it's what I'd want if I were you. Marcus, can you make a note on that?
- Marcus BellNoted. And I'd rather you saw it from Tom than from me, I don't do the pricing side. But I have pulled the numbers on usage, and I think that's the other thing we should talk about, if that's alright.
- Rebecca AinsworthGo on. I think I know where this is going.
- Marcus BellOkay. I'll share my screen. Can you all see that? So this is the last few months. Licensed users are 80, and the number of people actually logging in and asking questions in a typical month is well below that. And compared with the quarter before, it's come down by about a quarter. That's the part I wanted to be upfront about.
- Malcolm HebdenThank you for saying so plainly. So we have eighty licences and a small fraction in use. Members' money, not ours, Marcus. That is a difficult thing to take to a board.
- Marcus BellYeah, I get that. I'm not going to dress it up. No tickets from you in the last month, nothing urgent, no outages, so it isn't that something's broken. It's more that fewer people are using it.
- Rebecca AinsworthCan I come in on that? Because I think some of it is me. We had a reshuffle in member services in the autumn, two of the relationship managers moved teams, and a few people who'd been trained just stopped logging in over the busy period. I didn't push it. I should have.
- Tom AshdownDon't beat yourself up, Rebecca. That's pretty normal after a reshuffle. People fall back on what they know.
- Rebecca AinsworthPerhaps. But what does the member see? If the relationship manager goes into a renewal meeting without opening the member's record, the member ends up telling us everything twice. And that's what we said we wouldn't do.
- Marcus BellThat's the bit I'd like to fix, honestly. Happy to jump on a call with your team leads, and run a couple of short refresher sessions. Underwriting and claims too, not just member services. Shall we book half an hour with each group?
- Rebecca AinsworthI'd welcome that. Could we do it before the end of the month? While people are back in the swing of things.
- Marcus BellYes, I'll look at diaries this afternoon and send you some options.
- Malcolm HebdenMay I ask a related question. If usage stays where it is, are we paying for eighty users for the full term? Is there any flexibility on that number?
- Tom AshdownRight, so, honest answer. The order form is for 80 users on Growth, and that's what we've talked about for this renewal. If you wanted to look at a different number, that's a conversation we'd have to have and I'd need to come back to you on it. I don't want to say something off the cuff that I then have to walk back.
- Malcolm HebdenUnderstood. I will not press you today. But I would ask you to think about it, because it will be the first question the board asks.
- Tom AshdownFair enough. Let's get something in the diary for that, next week, you and me.
- Philip NuttallCan I jump in with the contractual side while I'm still here? It's probably the simplest bit.
- Tom AshdownPlease, Philip, go for it.
- Philip NuttallSo, we've reviewed the master services agreement and the data processing agreement that sit under the original order form. Our legal team has had a look and we have no changes to either. I'm happy to confirm for the record that both continue unchanged for the renewal term.
- Tom AshdownBrilliant. That's really helpful. So the MSA and the DPA carry on exactly as they are, nothing reopened. Marcus, can you make sure that's in the notes?
- Marcus BellYes, I've got it down. MSA and DPA unchanged, confirmed by Philip.
- Philip NuttallAnd I'd like that confirmed in an email afterwards, if you don't mind. Just so I have it on file. We're a mutual, so procurement likes a paper trail.
- Tom AshdownNo bother at all. I'll send it today, with the order form draft once I've got the numbers sorted.
- Philip NuttallThank you. Is there anything else you need from me before I go? Supplier details, insurance certificates, that kind of thing?
- Tom AshdownI don't think so, they're all on file from the first time round. If that changes I'll shout. Go on, off you go, thanks for making the time.
- Philip NuttallThanks all. Goodbye.
- Rebecca AinsworthBye Philip.
- Malcolm HebdenNow that Philip has gone, I would like to be candid. Rebecca, I do value what you have built here. I have heard the stories. But I am answerable to the board and the board will ask what we get for the money. Do we have anything beyond anecdote?
- Rebecca AinsworthThat's fair, Malcolm. Is that the whole picture, though? Because the stories are real, but I accept they're not a number. I'd like to be able to show you something firmer.
- Marcus BellI can help with that. I can look at questions asked by team, and who's asking them, and put together a short note on how it's being used in renewals specifically. That would at least show where it's earning its keep. I'd say it's uneven, so some teams are using it a lot and some barely at all.
- Malcolm HebdenThat would be useful. Over the full term, please, not just a single month. And I should like the note to be honest about the teams where it is not used.
- Marcus BellOf course. I'd rather you had the honest version. It's more use to you.
- Tom AshdownAnd I'd add, Malcolm, from my side, I'm not here to push you into anything you can't justify to the board. If it takes a bit longer to get the case right, I'd rather that than a rushed yes.
- Malcolm HebdenThat is appreciated. Though I note the date. The contract ends on 16 Jan 2026. What happens if the board has not met by then?
- Tom AshdownGood question, and I don't want to make something up. Let me take that away and check what the position is if there's a short gap, and I'll come back to you in writing. I wouldn't want you to assume anything either way.
- Malcolm HebdenI would not. Please do.
- Rebecca AinsworthWhen does the board next meet, Malcolm? Do you know offhand?
- Malcolm HebdenI shall need to check the calendar. I believe it is later this month, but I will not state a date I am not sure of. I will let Tom know.
- Tom AshdownPerfect. That's all I need. And honestly, if it helps, I can put a one-page summary together for the board pack. Plain English, what the term is, what it costs, what's changed, what usage looks like and what we're doing about it.
- Malcolm HebdenThat would be most welcome. With the base for every figure, please.
- Tom AshdownEvery figure with its base. Got it.
- Rebecca AinsworthCan I ask something slightly different? Marcus, the connectors. Are all of ours still loading properly? I want to make sure the usage drop isn't because people are seeing old information and losing faith.
- Marcus BellGood thought. From what I can see, everything's refreshing and the records are still being indexed. I haven't spotted a stalled connector. But I'll double check each one properly and tell you in writing, rather than rely on a glance at a screen.
- Rebecca AinsworthThank you. I'd rather know now.
- Malcolm HebdenAnd there have been no complaints, no tickets at all, in the past month?
- Marcus BellNone. Which is good in one sense. But I'll be straight with you, silence can also mean people have stopped bothering. So I wouldn't read it as all clear.
- Malcolm HebdenA sensible reading. Thank you.
- Tom AshdownSo, let me try and pull this together, because I know we're a good way in. We've got the structure: twenty-four months, annual in advance, 80 users on Growth. We've got Philip's confirmation that the MSA and the DPA carry on unchanged. We've got two things I owe you, Malcolm: the breakdown of the total with its base, and what happens if there's a gap after 16 Jan 2026. And Marcus owes you a usage note and the refresher sessions. Have I missed anything?
- Malcolm HebdenI think that covers it. I would add that I should like the usage note and the breakdown together, so that the board can read cost and value side by side.
- Tom AshdownTogether, yes. That makes sense.
- Rebecca AinsworthAnd I'll speak to the team leads about the sessions, so they actually turn up. I'll tell them it's not optional, gently.
- Marcus BellHa, thanks. That'd help. I'll send three or four slots so there's one that suits everyone.
- Malcolm HebdenOne further point, if I may. I understand the price on this renewal has not moved from the original. Can you confirm that there is no uplift in the figure we are discussing?
- Tom AshdownI'd want to check that against the signed order form before I say yes or no, Malcolm. I know what I believe, but I don't want to quote from memory on a price. It'll be in the breakdown, one way or the other, and I'll flag it clearly.
- Malcolm HebdenThank you. That is the answer of a supplier who keeps his word, and I would sooner have it that way.
- Tom AshdownCheers. I try.
- Rebecca AinsworthI do want to say one thing before we finish. I know this sounds like we're having second thoughts, and I don't think we are. I just want us to go to the board with a case that holds up. I'd like us to keep it.
- Tom AshdownThat's all I needed to hear, Rebecca. We'll get you there.
- Malcolm HebdenI shall review the papers when they arrive and revert. Thank you all. I have a call at eleven, so I should draw this to a close.
- Tom AshdownOf course. Right, I'll get the email out this afternoon with the confirmation on the agreements, and the written pieces will follow early next week. Cheers everyone.
- Marcus BellThanks all. Speak soon.
- Rebecca AinsworthThanks, both. Goodbye.
- Malcolm HebdenGood day.
Callsmade from