Kelbrook Mutual Insurance / BG-Demo – Renewal
Callcompleted
Kelbrook Mutual Insurance · 18 Dec 2025 11:45
Kelbrook's renewal call, four weeks before term end. Malcolm Hebden wants the term, base and any price change in writing, and would rather fill existing seats than add. Rebecca Ainsworth pushed hard to carry on.
What was said
What this says
As at Fri 9 Oct 2026Kelbrook's renewal call, four weeks before term end. Malcolm Hebden wants the term, base and any price change in writing, and would rather fill existing seats than add. Rebecca Ainsworth pushed hard to carry on.
What happened: Tom Ashdown put the renewal shape on the table without asking for a decision. He restated £56k as contracted and invoiced, and flagged a CRM renewal deal valued at £116k that is not a price and not yet proposed.
Customer view: Malcolm said the two-year term was agreed on the strength of the price staying put, and he wants to know now of any move. Rebecca said stopping would lose what changed how they do renewals.
Commercial: Tom will send a proposal with term, tier, users, connectors and a comparison with today, plus options on seat numbers. The expected close in the CRM is 14 Jan 2026, and a short extension would be agreed in writing.
Watch: The evidence does not show the proposed price or the board date.
Themes
As at Fri 9 Oct 2026Theme
Renewal terms and price
Importance
renewal
Sentiment
mixed
Voice
decision-maker
Who was there
BG-Demo
CRMmade from
Them
CRMmade from
Follow-up
Next steps
As at Fri 9 Oct 2026- Tom Ashdown to send a proposal with term, base, any price change and seat options, before Christmas if possible.
- Marcus Bell to send a short usage note by team and month, with dates, and check what is connected against the plan.
- Malcolm Hebden to check the board calendar, then book a 30-minute review in January once the contract position is known.
Risks
As at Fri 9 Oct 2026- Malcolm agreed the two-year term on the strength of the price staying put and may react badly to any increase.
- Seat headroom may prompt a push to cut users, and the board date could squeeze the 16 Jan 2026 term end.
- The CRM renewal deal value of £116,000 could be misread as a price if not explained clearly.
Opportunities
As at Fri 9 Oct 2026- Claims is asking for access, so a training session in January could fill existing seats.
- Rebecca mentioned connecting more member correspondence, a possible connector add-on.
Transcript
Tom AshdownHello, hello. Can you hear me alright? I've got the little bars jumping about, so I think I'm on.
Rebecca AinsworthHi Tom, yes, loud and clear. Hello Marcus.
Marcus BellHi Rebecca, hi Tom. Yeah, I can hear you both. Give me a second, I've got the usage report open in another window and I'll share it in a bit.- Tom AshdownNo rush. How's your week been, Rebecca? You've had the run up to Christmas, haven't you, I'd imagine the helpline's flat out.
- Rebecca AinsworthIt's been busy, but a good busy. I'll tell you one thing that stuck with me. A relationship manager rang a village hall committee on Monday about their renewal, and she already knew they'd had a small claim in the spring and that the treasurer had called us twice about the heating. She didn't have to ask. The chair said, thank you for remembering. That's what I mean by not making them tell us twice.
- Tom AshdownAh, that's lovely. That's the whole point of the thing, isn't it. No drama, just people feeling looked after.
- Marcus BellThat's great to hear. I'll make a note of that one if you don't mind, it's the sort of thing I can put in the summary.
- Rebecca AinsworthOf course. Malcolm said he'd be a minute or two late, he's finishing something with the auditors. He's very keen to be on for this one though.
- Tom AshdownFine by us. We'll warm up the room. Marcus, while we wait, are you still in Manchester? It's been foul up there, I saw the pictures.
- Marcus BellStill here, yeah. Wet and grey. Leeds any better, Rebecca?
- Rebecca AinsworthSame, I'm afraid. Oh, hang on, I think that's Malcolm joining now.
Malcolm HebdenGood afternoon, everyone. Apologies, I am a few minutes behind. Can you hear me?- Tom AshdownHello Malcolm, we can. And it's not afternoon yet, but you're not far off, so we'll let you have it. Thanks for making the time.
- Malcolm HebdenAh, quite right. Thank you for having me. If I may start with a question, as I always do: what has changed since the last order form? I have the original from January 2024 in front of me, and I should like to be sure I am reading the right document.
- Tom AshdownGood question, and that's a sensible place to start. So, the order form you signed was the two-year Growth term, and you became a customer on 17 Jan 2024. That term runs out on 16 Jan 2026, so we're about four weeks from the end. What I'd like to do today is just get the shape of the renewal on the table, so nobody's surprised in January. I won't be asking you to decide anything on the call.
- Malcolm HebdenThank you, that is helpful. I would not decide today in any event. The board would need to see it.
- Tom AshdownUnderstood. That's exactly how I'd want it. Marcus, why don't you kick us off with how it's actually been used, and then I'll pick up the commercial side.
- Marcus BellSure. So I'm going to share my screen now. Can you all see the usage report? It should say Kelbrook at the top.
- Rebecca AinsworthI can see it. It's a bit small, but yes.
- Marcus BellI'll zoom in. Right. I've pulled the numbers for the last quarter. You're licensed for eighty users on Growth. Over the last thirty days, the average number of people active has been around twenty. That's up by about a quarter compared with the quarter before, so it's moving the right way.
- Malcolm HebdenForgive me. Around twenty out of eighty. Are we paying for sixty seats that nobody uses?
- Marcus BellFair challenge. I'd put it a bit differently. Eighty is what the plan includes, and it was set so member services, underwriting and claims could all come on over the term. What we're seeing is that member services got going first, and the others are catching up. I wouldn't say it's a problem, but it is headroom you've already paid for.
- Rebecca AinsworthThat's fair, Malcolm. Member services have been the heaviest users since the start. The relationship managers use it before every renewal meeting. Underwriting came in more slowly, because they had their own spreadsheets they trusted, and claims are only now properly getting into it.
- Malcolm HebdenAnd is that the whole picture, as you would say, Rebecca? Is it being used for decisions, or for looking things up?
- Rebecca AinsworthMostly looking things up, to be honest, though the looking up has changed what happens in the meeting. Before, someone would spend the best part of an hour pulling together policies, claims and the call history from three places. Now they ask one question and have it. The decisions are still ours. I wouldn't want to say otherwise.
- Marcus BellThat matches what I can see. If I scroll down, this is the page for questions asked, and it's been climbing month on month. It's not just one or two people either, which is what I like to see. It's spread across the team.
- Malcolm HebdenSpread across how many people? Do give me the base.
- Marcus BellFair. I don't want to give you a number off the top of my head and get it wrong. I'll put the breakdown by team in the summary I send afterwards, with the dates it covers, so you've got the base.
- Malcolm HebdenThank you. I would prefer that.
- Marcus BellOther things on the page. Support tickets, there've been none in the last thirty days. Nothing high priority, nothing open. And on the refresh side, the nightly data load has been completing, no gaps I can see.
- Tom AshdownWhich, if I can say, is a pretty quiet couple of months. No news is good news in this game, but I'd rather hear it from you, Rebecca, than just take the dashboard's word for it. Has anything been annoying people?
- Rebecca AinsworthHonestly, no. There was a bit of grumbling a while back about one of the sources not showing the newest calls, but that got sorted and I've not heard it since. If anything, the grumbling is the other way. People ask me why we can't have it for the whole of the claims floor.
- Tom AshdownRight, that's interesting. I'm going to park that for a minute and come back to it, because I don't want to jump straight into selling you more when we've only just said hello. Malcolm, can I talk about the renewal itself?
- Malcolm HebdenPlease do. And over the full term, please. I would like to understand the commitment before the numbers.
- Tom AshdownAbsolutely. So, what's on the record. Your contracted annual recurring revenue is £55,800, and that matches what's been invoiced. So the order form and the invoices agree, which is always nice, because it doesn't always happen. That's what you've been paying each year under the current term.
- Malcolm HebdenYes, that agrees with our ledger. £55,800 a year. Good.
- Tom AshdownNow, in our system I've got a renewal deal open with a value of £116,000. I'm being careful here, because that's the total value on the deal record, not a yearly price, and I'd want to confirm exactly what it covers before anyone leans on it. I haven't put a proposal to you yet, so please don't read anything into that figure. Leave that with me and I'll confirm it in writing.
- Malcolm HebdenI am glad you said so. A figure without its base is not something I can take to the board. What does that commit us to, and for how long? That is what I shall be asked.
- Tom AshdownCompletely fair. So what I'll send is a proper proposal that says the term, the tier, the number of users and connectors, what's yearly and what's one-off if anything is, and how it compares with what you pay today. Side by side, nothing hidden. And I'll say what I'm assuming, so you can tell me if I've got it wrong.
- Malcolm HebdenThat would be ideal. And I should say, we agreed a two-year term last time on the strength of the price staying put. Members' money, not ours. If anything about the price is going to move, I should rather know now than in January.
- Tom AshdownUnderstood, and I won't dodge it. I'm not going to quote you a price from memory on a call and then have to take it back. What I'll do is check exactly what applies to you and put it in the proposal with the reasons. If there's any change, you'll see it plainly and you'll see it early.
- Malcolm HebdenThank you. That is all I ask.
- Rebecca AinsworthCan I add something, Malcolm, while we're on it? I'm not agreeing anything, I know that's your call. But from where I sit, if we stopped, we'd lose the thing that's changed how we do renewals. I'd find it hard to go back.
- Malcolm HebdenI appreciate that, Rebecca, and I do not take it lightly. I should still like to see what it costs us, set against what it does for members. Perhaps you could help me with that. What would you say is the clearest evidence of value so far?
- Rebecca AinsworthThe time, first of all. The prep for a renewal meeting used to be most of an hour for a relationship manager, and now it's a few minutes. But the better answer is the one I gave at the start. What does the member see? They see someone who already knows them. Schools and churches talk to each other, you know. If we get a reputation for making people repeat themselves, it spreads.
- Malcolm HebdenMm. The time saving I can put a figure on, given the base. The reputation is harder, though I do not dismiss it.
- Marcus BellCan I help with that? I can set out the usage by team and by month, and Rebecca could add a couple of specific examples like the village hall one. Then you've got both the numbers and the stories for the board paper. I'm happy to jump on a call with you separately if it'd help to walk through it.
- Malcolm HebdenI should welcome that. A short note, with dates, would serve better than a long one.
- Marcus BellShort, with dates. Got it.
- Tom AshdownCan I go back to the headroom point, Malcolm, since you raised it? Sixty or so seats not in daily use. I don't think the answer is to cut the number and hope. And I don't think it's to stay the same without a plan. The honest answer might be somewhere between, and I'd want to look at it properly rather than guess on a call.
- Malcolm HebdenAre you suggesting we could pay for fewer seats?
- Tom AshdownI'm saying I'll show you the options. Same tier as now, maybe a different mix of users and connectors, and I'll be straight about what each one does to the cost and what it does to what your teams can do. If the best answer for you is to keep what you've got and fill the seats, I'll say so.
- Malcolm HebdenVery well. That is a reasonable approach. I would only add that I would rather fill what we already have than add to it.
- Rebecca AinsworthI agree with that. The claims floor is where I'd start. They keep asking and I keep saying wait until the renewal's sorted.
- Marcus BellThat's something I can help with right away. A training session for the claims team would be a sensible thing to get in the diary for January, whatever happens with the contract. I can walk them through asking questions about a member's policy and claims history and calls, using your own data.
- Rebecca AinsworthI'd like that. Would you be able to do it without taking them off the phones for too long?
- Marcus BellYes, I'd keep it short and practical. Maybe two small groups rather than the whole floor at once. We can work out the timing together.
- Malcolm HebdenMay I ask a practical question about the timetable? The term ends on 16 Jan 2026. When do you need our decision by, and what happens if the board has not met by then?
- Tom AshdownGood one. In my system the expected close is 14 January 2026, which is a couple of days before the term ends, so it's a target and not a deadline anyone's holding a gun to. The thing I want to avoid is you ending up with a gap or a rushed signature. So if the board's timing is tight, tell me now and we'll work backwards from it.
- Malcolm HebdenI shall check the board calendar after this call and let you know. I would not wish to be rushed, and I would not wish the service to lapse either.
- Tom AshdownNor me. Let me know what you find and I'll build around it. If it means a short extension to give you room, that's something I can raise on our side, but I'd want to agree it in writing, not by a nod on a call.
- Malcolm HebdenQuite so. Writing is better.
- Rebecca AinsworthCan I ask about something different? It's not about price. When we first signed, there was a lot of effort setting up the connections. If we do change anything, say adding another source, how painful is that?
- Marcus BellNot very, normally. It depends what the source is. I'd need to check what's already connected for you against what the plan includes. I'll pull that into the note as well, so you can see what's in use and what room there is.
- Rebecca AinsworthThank you. I ask because a few people have wondered about connecting more of the member correspondence.
- Marcus BellRight, that's useful to know. I'll note it down. I wouldn't promise anything on timing from here, but I can find out what it would take.
- Malcolm HebdenBefore we go further, may I summarise what I think I have heard? Stop me if I have it wrong.
- Tom AshdownPlease.
- Malcolm HebdenFirst, the current contracted amount is £55,800 a year and it agrees with our invoices. Second, there is a deal on your side with a total value of £116,000, which you will explain in writing and which I should not treat as a price. Third, you will send a proposal showing the term, the base and any change, together with options on users. Fourth, Marcus will send a short usage note with dates. And fifth, I will check the board calendar. Is that fair?
- Tom AshdownThat's spot on. You've said it better than I would have. I'd add that I'll get the proposal over before Christmas if I can, or at the very latest in the first days after, so you've got time to read it with a clear head.
- Malcolm HebdenBefore Christmas would be kind, but I shall not hold you to it if it means getting it wrong.
- Tom AshdownRight-o. I'd rather get it right than get it quick. I'll tell you if it's slipping.
- Rebecca AinsworthOne last thing from me, if there's time. Marcus, the quarterly reviews. We've had those since the start, and I've found them useful, mainly because they make me look at the numbers when I'd otherwise be too busy. Is that staying as it is?
- Marcus BellAs far as I'm aware, yes. That comes with the Growth plan. I'll confirm it in the note rather than say it from memory. I'd like to book the next one in the new year anyway. Shall we book 30 minutes in January once we know where the contract stands?
- Rebecca AinsworthYes please. After the board, I think. Malcolm, would that work?
- Malcolm HebdenIt would, provided the date is not set before I know the board's. I shall tell you both.
- Tom AshdownBrilliant. Is there anything else anyone wants to raise while we've got you all? We've still got a bit of time on the clock, no need to fill it for the sake of it.
- Malcolm HebdenOne more. Who at BG-Demo should I speak to if I have a question about the proposal? I should like one name.
- Tom AshdownMe, for anything to do with terms and price. Ring me or send me a line, and I'll come back to you the same day if I can. Marcus is your person for how it's being used and the training. I'll make sure that's clear in the email.
- Marcus BellThat's right. And I should say, I don't get into the price side. That's Tom's. But anything about the usage numbers, I'm happy to go through.
- Malcolm HebdenVery clear. Thank you both.
- Rebecca AinsworthCan I just say, on a personal note, that it's been a good two years working with you. It hasn't felt like dealing with a supplier. It's felt more like a team. Which is the reason I'm pushing so hard for us to carry on, I suppose.
- Tom AshdownWell, that's very kind. And that goes both ways. We've enjoyed it. Right, I think we've done what we needed to.
- Malcolm HebdenThen I shall leave you. Thank you for the clarity, and for not asking me to decide. I wish you all a pleasant Christmas.
- Tom AshdownAnd you, Malcolm. Cheers, all. Speak soon.
- Rebecca AinsworthBye for now, and happy Christmas.
- Marcus BellThanks everyone. I'll get that note over shortly. Bye.
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