Strensall Merchants / BG-Demo – Discovery
Callcompleted
Strensall Merchants · 16 Dec 2024 15:45
Discovery with the trade customers director and group finance director. Pain is a fragmented view of builder accounts. £144k was quoted as total deal value including implementation, not an annual price. Finance wants a usage case.
What was said
What this says
As at Fri 9 Oct 2026Discovery with the trade customers director and group finance director. Pain is a fragmented view of builder accounts. £144k was quoted as total deal value including implementation, not an annual price. Finance wants a usage case.
What happened: Lewis Kerr ran discovery with Neil Craven and Fiona Metcalfe. Neil described a housebuilder order held by credit that the branch did not see, and Fiona set out her credit risk concerns.
Customer view: Fiona said no decision was needed, but she wants a usage case and a board paper before committing. Neil said "this isn't a small cheque for us" and wants it used.
Commercial: Lewis gave £144k excluding VAT as the total deal value including the one-off implementation fee, and said the subscription alone is smaller. The target order form date is 14 Feb 2025, described as a plan. A general analytics supplier and an in-house data team build were mentioned as alternatives.
Watch: Snowflake is unconfirmed, and the IT approver for demo data is not named. Fiona wants holds checked against the system of record, and credit limits must stay with credit.
Themes
As at Fri 9 Oct 2026Theme
Enterprise discovery, joined-up accounts
Importance
upsell
Sentiment
positive
Voice
decision-maker
Who was there
BG-Demo
CRMmade from
Them
CRMmade from
Follow-up
Next steps
As at Fri 9 Oct 2026- Neil Craven to confirm the IT approver, the Snowflake position and a demo account shortlist.
- Lewis Kerr to send the written summary and a proposal splitting subscription, implementation and training.
- Lewis Kerr and Daniel Okafor to draft a usage case for the proposal.
Risks
As at Fri 9 Oct 2026- Fiona Metcalfe will not commit without a board paper and a written usage case.
- It is unconfirmed whether Strensall Merchants has Snowflake, which B-Viz needs.
- An in-house data team build and a general analytics supplier are possible alternatives.
Opportunities
As at Fri 9 Oct 2026- Enterprise across branches, trade credit and key accounts, with possible sales support later.
- On-site training as a separate add-on line in the proposal.
Transcript
Lewis KerrHello, can you hear me all right? I've got Neil on the screen but I think Fiona's still joining.
Neil CravenI can hear you fine, Lewis. Fiona's just coming in now, I can see her little circle spinning.
Fiona MetcalfeSorry, sorry. Back to back since lunch and the last one overran. Good afternoon. Can you both hear me?- Lewis KerrLoud and clear. Good afternoon, Fiona. Thanks for making the time, I know it's a busy week for you with the year end coming up.
- Fiona MetcalfeIt is. So, before we start, what decision is needed from me on this call? I'd rather know now.
- Lewis KerrFair question, and a short answer: none today. This is discovery. I want to understand what you'd like to buy and by when, so I can put a clean proposal in front of you. Our working target is to have an order form ready to sign around 14 Feb 2025, but that's a plan, not a promise, and it depends on what we hear this afternoon.
- Fiona MetcalfeGood. That I can work with. I'm here to listen and to ask about money and risk, so forgive me if I come in sideways.
- Neil CravenShe will. Mind you, I'd better say, I had a housebuilder on the phone first thing this morning. Big site, one of our key accounts. Their site manager had been told one thing by the branch about a delivery and something different by our credit desk. That's exactly why I wanted this call.
- Lewis KerrThat's useful, Neil, go on. What actually happened there? Which branch, which account, if you don't mind me borrowing your phrase.
- Neil CravenHa, you've been listening to me. Right. The builder had an order held. Credit had put a hold on it because of an overdue balance, but the branch never saw the hold. Branch manager tells the site manager it's on the lorry. It wasn't. Builder's furious, and frankly he's right to be.
- Fiona MetcalfeAnd what was our exposure on that account at the time? I haven't seen the figure yet, Neil. In pounds, please, when you send it.
- Neil CravenI'll get it to you tonight. I don't have it in my head. I'm not going to guess in front of a supplier.
- Lewis KerrNo, quite right. Let me take a step back so I've got the picture straight. You're a builders' merchant group, ninety-odd branches across the North of England and the Midlands, head office here in York. Is that fair?
- Neil CravenFair enough. Mostly the North, then a good spread down into the Midlands. Some branches are big yards with lorries and a trade counter, some are little places in market towns with three people.
- Lewis KerrAnd the three groups who'd use something like this are the branches, trade credit and the key-account team?
- Neil CravenThose three, yes. Possibly sales support later, but start with those. Today each of them sees a different slice of the same builder. Branch sees orders and deliveries. Credit sees the ledger. Key accounts sees the relationship and whatever the area manager remembers.
- Fiona MetcalfeAnd nobody sees the lot. Which is the point, from my side. I own the credit risk across tens of thousands of trade accounts, and I can't explain to the board why one customer is treated one way in Leeds and another way in Derby.
- Lewis KerrUnderstood. So the pain is really three things: the same account looks different depending on who you ask, holds and limits don't reach the branch in time, and nobody can tell the full story of a builder without ringing four people. Have I got that?
- Neil CravenSpot on. I'd add calls. When a builder rings the branch and says something about a dispute, that goes in somebody's notebook. Maybe.
- Lewis KerrMm. That's where the call recordings and the notes come in. Can I ask what you've got today? Roughly what systems hold the orders, the credit position, the phone calls, the emails?
- Neil CravenRight. So orders and deliveries sit in the main trading system, that's the engine room. Credit has its own system on top of the ledger. Key accounts use a CRM, I think they'd say they use it more than they do. Calls, the branches have a phone system, head office has something different. And email is, well, email.
- Fiona MetcalfeAnd finance has the accounting ledger, which is the one I trust.
- Lewis KerrWhich is the right one to trust. Now I should say how B-Viz works, because it affects the conversation with your IT. It's built and run inside your own Snowflake account, so the data doesn't leave your environment. Do you have Snowflake today?
- Neil CravenYou'd have to ask our IT director. I know we've got a data team, and I've heard the word Snowflake in a meeting. I wouldn't swear to it.
- Lewis KerrThat's fine. That's one for the list, and I'll put it down as a question for your IT lead rather than assume. If you don't have one, we can talk about how that gets set up. It's not a deal-breaker, it just changes the plan.
- Fiona MetcalfeI'd want to understand that properly. Who pays for the Snowflake side? Is it in your number or on top?
- Lewis KerrGood catch, Fiona. I don't want to answer that from memory and get it wrong. I'll confirm it in writing when I send the proposal. The principle is that the compute and storage sit with you because it's your account, and our fee covers B-Viz itself and the implementation.
- Fiona MetcalfeRight. Please put it in pounds when you do.
- Lewis KerrWill do.
- Neil CravenCan I ask something practical? What's the builder actually seeing? I mean, if I'd had B-Viz this morning, what would have been different?
- Lewis KerrHonestly, the builder wouldn't see B-Viz at all. It's for your people. But your branch manager, before telling the site manager the order was on the lorry, could have asked it something like, what's the status of this account, any holds, any open disputes, what did we last say to them. And got one answer drawn from orders, credit, calls and emails together, with the sources shown.
- Neil CravenThat's it. That's the thing.
- Fiona MetcalfeWith the sources shown. That matters to me. If a credit controller acts on an answer, I need to know where the answer came from. And who is allowed to see it.
- Lewis KerrAgreed on both. Permissions follow your existing access, so a branch person doesn't suddenly see things they shouldn't. We'd walk through that in detail with your IT and security people. Since you're looking at Enterprise, that security review is part of the process, and we support it.
- Fiona MetcalfeGood. And I'll say now, so nobody's surprised later: credit limits stay with credit. If this thing ever suggested sales could set a limit, that's a no from me.
- Lewis KerrUnderstood, and that's not what it does. It reads and answers. It doesn't change a limit in your credit system. The decision stays where it is.
- Fiona MetcalfeLovely.
- Neil CravenLet's sort it, not talk about it, that's my view. How quickly could the branches be using it? Because I've got a few area managers who will want to see it working before they believe a word of it.
- Lewis KerrReasonable. The usual route is to start with a demo on your own data, a small slice, maybe one region and a handful of key accounts. That tends to convince the sceptics quicker than slides. After that comes the proposal, then the order form, then the implementation, which is a fixed-fee piece of work. I don't want to give you a week count off the top of my head, so I'll set it out in the proposal.
- Neil CravenFine by me.
- Fiona MetcalfeWhich brings me to the number, I suppose. Lewis, where are we, roughly? I'm not agreeing anything on this call, I want that clear. But I'd like to know the order of magnitude.
- Lewis KerrOf course, and thank you for being upfront. To put a number on it, what we have in the system for this opportunity is £143,500, exclusive of VAT. I want to be careful: that's the total value of the deal, including the one-off implementation fee. It's not an annual price. The subscription on its own is a smaller figure and I'll break the two apart in the proposal.
- Fiona MetcalfeSo the all-in first-year cost is somewhere around that, and the run rate after is less.
- Lewis KerrThat's the right way to think about it, yes. I'll write out exactly which is which. I'd hate you to take a board paper a wrong number.
- Fiona MetcalfeI'd hate that more. Thank you. We'll look at the detail when I see it on paper.
- Neil CravenI'll just say, because Fiona won't, this isn't a small cheque for us. So we'll want to be sure it's going to be used. Not bought and left in a drawer.
- Fiona MetcalfeNeil's right. I don't renew anything without a usage case. Even though we're nowhere near a renewal, I'm asking how you'd show me value in the first year.
- Lewis KerrGood question, and honestly the answer is that your own team asking questions is the best measure. Our customer success lead, Daniel Okafor, would work with you after go-live. He'd look at who's asking what, how often, which branches have taken it up and which haven't. At the Enterprise level there's also an executive sponsor on our side. You'd get a review of that with you on a regular rhythm.
- Neil CravenDaniel, I haven't met him.
- Lewis KerrNo, not yet. I'll set up an introduction once we're further along. He's the one who stays with you after I've handed over the commercial side.
- Neil CravenGood. I like to know who I ring.
- Lewis KerrCan I go back to the data for a minute? I want to understand how fresh it needs to be. For something like a credit hold, does it matter if the answer is a day old?
- Fiona MetcalfeIt matters a great deal. A day old on a hold is a day when a lorry goes out that shouldn't. Overnight is fine for most things. For holds, I'd want to understand what happens when it isn't current.
- Lewis KerrThat's an important distinction and I'll flag it properly. The brain refreshes overnight, which suits most questions. For things that need to be live, the answer should say how recent the data behind it is, and your teams should know to check the system of record for a hold. I'd rather tell you that now than have you find out in month three.
- Fiona MetcalfeThank you. That's a straight answer. I appreciate it.
- Neil CravenWhich branch, which account, that's the question people will actually type. So it needs to know our account names properly. Builders trade under three or four names. The limited company, the trading name, the site name.
- Lewis KerrMm, that's a classic. Same company, several records. It's part of the work in implementation to join those up, and you'd need someone in credit or key accounts who knows how the builders actually trade to help us. Who would that be, do you think?
- Neil CravenMe, to start with, then I'd pull in somebody from the credit team. I'd rather not name them until I've asked. They've got day jobs.
- Lewis KerrFair enough. I'll put a placeholder line in the plan: one owner on your side from trade customers, one from credit, one from IT. We can name them later.
- Fiona MetcalfeAnd finance. Somebody from my team needs to check the numbers the thing quotes against the ledger. Otherwise I can't sign it off.
- Lewis KerrAgreed, I'll add that. That's a sensible control, and frankly it's what builds trust in the first few weeks.
- Neil CravenLet me ask you about the branches. Some of them aren't great with computers. Counter staff, drivers, yard managers. Is this going to be a thing only head office uses?
- Lewis KerrIt can be used by anyone you give access to, and the interface is chat and search, so it's closer to asking a question than learning a system. But I won't pretend adoption is automatic. The branches that get the most from it usually have one person who champions it. And we do training sessions, we can do some of them on site if that helps.
- Neil CravenOn site's good. People pay attention when there's a bloke in the room.
- Fiona MetcalfeIs on-site training included or is it extra?
- Lewis KerrI believe it's an add-on, but I don't want to quote from memory. I'll put it in the proposal as a separate line so you can see it and decide.
- Fiona MetcalfeSeparate line, in pounds. Thank you.
- Lewis KerrNoted. Now, something I should ask. Have you looked at anybody else for this? Another supplier, or building something in-house with the data team?
- Neil CravenOur data team did say they could build something. I've heard that before. They've got a long list and this would sit at the bottom.
- Fiona MetcalfeWe've had one other conversation, a more general analytics supplier. It was about reports for the whole group. Nothing that really joined up the calls and the emails with the credit position. I don't think they're a serious option for this particular problem, but I'm not ruling anything out.
- Lewis KerrThat's fair, and I'd expect you to look around. If it helps, I'd say the test is the demo on your own data. If we can't answer a real question about a real account better than what you have, you'll see it straight away.
- Neil CravenGood. That's what I'd want.
- Fiona MetcalfeLewis, what would you need from us to run that demo? Without creating a project in itself.
- Lewis KerrNot much. A small sample of orders and credit data for a few accounts, ideally anonymised or restricted to a region, plus some call and email examples if your IT is comfortable sharing them. My colleague on the solutions side will tell you exactly what in writing. The main thing is a named person in IT who can approve what leaves your systems for the demo.
- Neil CravenI'll find out who. Probably the IT director, like I said. Give me a few days.
- Fiona MetcalfeAnd do tell me if there's anything on the data side that's sensitive. I'd want to see it before it goes anywhere.
- Lewis KerrOf course. Nothing leaves without your say-so.
- Neil CravenRight. Time check, we've got a bit left. Is there anything else you need from me?
- Lewis KerrA couple of things. First, which housebuilders matter most? Not names today, but how many and how they're managed. A short list of the key accounts you'd want in the demo.
- Neil CravenA handful that I'd stake the business on. I'll pick a few for the demo, mix of big and awkward. The awkward ones show it up.
- Lewis KerrThat's exactly the right instinct. Second, is there any internal deadline I should know about? A board meeting, a budget round, anything that sets the date for a decision?
- Fiona MetcalfeBudget is set early in the new year. If it's going to be in this year's spend, or the next, I need to know which. I'd want a paper for the board before I commit to anything. Realistically that points at February, which is why your date of 14 Feb 2025 isn't silly. But it isn't fixed.
- Lewis KerrUnderstood. Let's treat it as a target and work back from it. That means the demo soon after the new year, the proposal straight after, and the security review running alongside.
- Fiona MetcalfeThat works. I'd want the proposal at least a couple of weeks before I take it anywhere.
- Lewis KerrNoted. I'll build the timeline around that.
- Neil CravenRight then, so what happens next? Let's sort it, not talk about it.
- Lewis KerrHere's what I have. One, Neil, you find out who in IT approves the sample data, and whether you have Snowflake. Two, Neil, you send me a short list of accounts for the demo. Three, Fiona, you get the exposure figure from Neil, which is internal to you. Four, I send you a written summary of today tonight, the proposal outline after that, with the split between subscription and implementation and the on-site training as its own line. All excluding VAT, with the VAT position stated.
- Fiona MetcalfeThat covers it. One more from me. Who on your side signs off the contract terms? Is it you?
- Lewis KerrI own the commercial terms, yes, and our legal people stand behind the order form. You'd have a master agreement and an order form. I'll send you the standard terms early so your legal team isn't waiting on us.
- Fiona MetcalfePlease do. Early is better.
- Neil CravenAnything from you, Fiona, before we finish?
- Fiona MetcalfeOnly that I'd like the usage case written down, even a rough one. What would we measure at ninety days, what would we measure at a year. I don't want to be inventing it afterwards.
- Lewis KerrI'll draft that with Daniel and include it in the proposal. We'll keep it simple: questions asked, who's asking, which branches, and how many of the key accounts are using it. Then you tell me what's missing.
- Fiona MetcalfeGood. That's all from me, then. Thank you both.
- Neil CravenCheers, Lewis. That was useful. I'll get back to you by the end of the week on the IT name.
- Lewis KerrBrilliant. I'll send that over today. Thanks both, speak soon.
- Fiona MetcalfeGoodbye.
- Neil CravenBye now.
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