Kelbrook Mutual Insurance / BG-Demo – Proposal
Callcompleted
Kelbrook Mutual Insurance · 4 Dec 2023 13:15
Proposal call with Rebecca Ainsworth and CFO Malcolm Hebden. He wants the £124k broken down and will not sign a multi-year commitment without the board. A board summary and a sponsor group were agreed.
What was said
What this says
As at Fri 9 Oct 2026Proposal call with Rebecca Ainsworth and CFO Malcolm Hebden. He wants the £124k broken down and will not sign a multi-year commitment without the board. A board summary and a sponsor group were agreed.
What happened: Tom Ashdown walked through the Growth proposal. He said £124k is the total across the two-year term including implementation, not a yearly figure.
Customer view: Malcolm asked for implementation and each year's subscription shown separately. He said he does not sign a multi-year commitment without the board and will decide nothing on this call.
Commercial: Tom owes a breakdown note, the master agreement, an order form draft and a two-page board summary. Open points are price across the term, additional users, service credits and an optional on-site training day priced apart.
Watch: Rebecca's finance system connector request was deferred pending access questions. She asked the sponsor wording be widened so the project does not rest on her alone.
Themes
As at Fri 9 Oct 2026Theme
Proposal, board approval, value
Importance
renewal
Sentiment
mixed
Voice
decision-maker
Who was there
BG-Demo
CRMmade from
Them
CRMmade from
Follow-up
Next steps
As at Fri 9 Oct 2026- Tom Ashdown to send the breakdown note covering implementation, each year's subscription, user blocks and service levels.
- Tom Ashdown to draft the two-page board summary and send the master agreement and order form draft.
- Tom Ashdown to amend the proposal to name the sponsor group and arrange the introduction with Marcus Bell.
Risks
As at Fri 9 Oct 2026- Malcolm will not decide on the call and cannot say whether the board can consider it by the 3 Jan 2024 target.
- He needs a value measure including cost, and the case is not yet made.
- Claims is wary and Rebecca is a single point of dependency for sponsorship.
Opportunities
As at Fri 9 Oct 2026- A later finance system connector and extra user blocks could extend the Growth deal.
- An on-site training day for the helpline team is a priced option.
- A sponsor group meeting at the quarterly review gives a route to the board.
Transcript
Tom AshdownHello, hello. Can you hear me alright, Rebecca?
Rebecca AinsworthLoud and clear, Tom. Good afternoon.- Tom AshdownAfternoon. Brilliant. Is Malcolm joining us, or is he still tied up?
Malcolm HebdenI'm here, thank you. Apologies, I was finishing a note for the audit committee. My camera is being awkward, so you'll have to make do with my voice for a minute.- Tom AshdownNo drama at all, Malcolm. Voice is plenty. How's everyone's week been? I know it's only Monday, but you know how it is, it feels like Thursday already.
- Rebecca AinsworthBusy, but a good busy. Can I tell you something that happened on the helpline last week? It's relevant, I promise.
- Tom AshdownGo on, please.
- Rebecca AinsworthA church secretary rang about the roof on their hall. Third time she'd rung. And each time she'd had to explain the whole thing from the start, because whoever picked up couldn't see the earlier calls, couldn't see the policy notes, couldn't see the claim sitting with the other team. She wasn't cross, she's lovely, but she said, 'I do feel I'm telling you the same story again.' And that is exactly what we said we'd stop doing.
- Tom AshdownYeah. That's the bit that sticks, isn't it. Let's not make them tell us twice, as you'd say.
- Rebecca AinsworthExactly that.
- Malcolm HebdenIf I may, before we start. Tom, I always like to open by asking what has changed since the last paper I saw. We haven't got an order form yet, of course, but I believe the proposal has moved since the version Rebecca forwarded to me.
- Tom AshdownFair question, and yes, a bit. Three things really. We've settled on Growth as the tier, we've shaped it around a two-year term as you'd talked about, and we've firmed up which teams are in from the start. I'll share my screen and walk you through it, and you can stop me wherever. Give me a second, I never find the right window first time.
- Rebecca AinsworthTake your time. We're not going anywhere.
- Tom AshdownRight. Can you see that? It should say Kelbrook Mutual Insurance at the top.
- Rebecca AinsworthYes, that's up.
- Malcolm HebdenI can see it on my phone, a little small, but legible.
- Tom AshdownLovely. So the shape of it. B-Viz sits inside your own Snowflake account. That's worth saying early, because it comes up with every finance and risk person I speak to. The data doesn't go off to us and live somewhere else. We build and run the layer in your account, and your people ask questions of it. Member services, underwriting and claims all looking at the same picture of a member: policies, claims, calls, emails.
- Malcolm HebdenCould you say that again, please, about where the data sits. I would like it in the minutes.
- Tom AshdownCourse. It stays in your Snowflake account. We build B-Viz there and run it there. I'll put it in writing as well, so you've got it in black and white for the board.
- Malcolm HebdenThank you. That does help. Please carry on.
- Tom AshdownSo Growth is the tier for several teams. You get chat, search and pages, which is how people actually ask questions and save what they find, and on top of that the dashboards builder, so someone in underwriting can put together a view without waiting on anybody. And there's a quarterly review with our customer success lead, Marcus Bell. He'd be your point of contact once we're live. You haven't met him yet, so I'll get something in the diary.
- Rebecca AinsworthI'd like that. The relationship managers will want to know who to ring when something's not right. What does the member see, you know? If a relationship manager is going into a renewal meeting and the information's wrong, the member sees that straight away.
- Tom AshdownAbsolutely. And that's why the first stretch is all about connecting the right sources and checking them with you before anyone relies on them. Can I show you the sources page?
- Rebecca AinsworthPlease.
- Tom AshdownSo on the left, the policy administration system, the claims system, your call recorder, the shared mailboxes, and the helpdesk the member team uses. That's what we talked about at the demo. Growth has a limit on connectors, and this list sits comfortably inside it, with a bit of room. If there's a sixth or seventh source you'd want later, we can talk about that when we get there.
- Rebecca AinsworthThere's one I haven't mentioned. The finance system, for premiums and arrears. Claims and underwriting would both like it, but I wasn't sure if it was too much to ask for at the start.
- Tom AshdownNot too much to ask at all. Let me check how that sits against the connector allowance before I say yes, I don't want to promise it from memory. I'll come back to you on that in writing.
- Malcolm HebdenRebecca, I would rather we kept the first phase tight. Premium and arrears data is sensitive, and I would want to understand who sees it before it goes in.
- Rebecca AinsworthThat's fair, Malcolm. Is that the whole picture, though? Because if we leave it out, relationship managers will still be ringing finance to ask whether a school's up to date.
- Malcolm HebdenThen let us discuss it as a second step, with the access questions answered first.
- Tom AshdownThat works for me, and honestly it's the way I'd suggest it anyway. Start with the sources everyone agrees on, get people asking questions, and add the finance one when you're comfortable. I'll note it as a possible later addition.
- Rebecca AinsworthFine. Let's do that.
- Tom AshdownOkay, next page is probably the one Malcolm's been waiting for. Commercials.
- Malcolm HebdenI won't pretend otherwise.
- Tom AshdownSo the number at the bottom of the page is £123,600. That's the total for the deal across the two-year Growth term, and it includes the one-off implementation. It isn't a yearly figure, I want to be clear about that, because people read it that way.
- Malcolm HebdenThank you for saying so. Then my question is the usual one: what is the base? What does £123,600 consist of? I would like to see the implementation separately from the subscription, and I would like the subscription for each year.
- Tom AshdownYeah, that's fair. I'm not going to recite the split from memory, because I'd rather you had it exactly right than roughly right. I'll put the breakdown in a short note after this call: implementation, then the subscription for each of the two years, so you can see what the total is made of.
- Malcolm HebdenOver the full term, please. Not just the first year.
- Tom AshdownOver the full term, yes. And I'll set out in the note whether the price holds for both years. I believe that's the intention with a two-year term, but I'll confirm it rather than say it here and have it be slightly off.
- Malcolm HebdenI would be grateful. What does that commit us to, and for how long? That is the sentence I will need to be able to say to the board. If we sign, are we committed to the second year regardless?
- Tom AshdownSo with a two-year term, yes, it's a two-year commitment, that's what the term means. What I'd do is have the order form say plainly what the commitment is, what's payable and when, and what happens at the end of the term. Our standard is invoicing annually in advance, thirty days to pay, though quarterly is possible if you ask. I'll put that in the note too.
- Malcolm HebdenAnnual in advance would be acceptable in principle. I would want to see how it falls against our financial year.
- Tom AshdownThen tell me your year end afterwards and I'll line the invoice dates up as best we can.
- Malcolm HebdenI shall email you.
- Rebecca AinsworthCan I come in on that? Malcolm, I know it's members' money, and I'm not asking you to rush. But I'd say that what we're really buying is the ability to stop members repeating themselves, and to walk into a renewal knowing what's happened to them in the year.
- Malcolm HebdenI understand that, Rebecca, and I do not dispute it. Members' money, not ours. That is precisely why I want to see the figure with its base, and why I want the board to see it as well. It is not a criticism of you or of Tom.
- Rebecca AinsworthI know. I just want it said out loud, that's all.
- Tom AshdownNo, that's helpful. And it's useful for me too, because if I know the board is going to ask how we'll tell whether it's worth it, I can build that in. Can I suggest something?
- Malcolm HebdenPlease.
- Tom AshdownIn the first stretch, we agree a handful of things you'd want to see changing. Not a big list. Say, how quickly a relationship manager can prepare for a renewal meeting, how often a member gets asked for something they've already told you, that sort of thing. Rebecca will know better than me what they should be. Then at the quarterly review with Marcus you look at them, and the board has something real to point to.
- Rebecca AinsworthI like that. I could draft the list. It would be the member-facing ones first.
- Malcolm HebdenThat would be welcome. I would want at least one measure that is about cost, not only about experience.
- Rebecca AinsworthThen you and I can sit down on that, Malcolm.
- Malcolm HebdenAgreed.
- Tom AshdownGreat. Right, timings, because I know you'll ask. The date we've pencilled for getting the order form signed is Wednesday 3 January 2024. That's the expected close on my side. I'd call it a target, not a deadline, to be clear.
- Malcolm HebdenA target, and not a commitment on our part. I should say plainly that I do not sign a multi-year commitment without the board, and I will not decide anything on this call. Whether the board can consider it in time for that date, I cannot say today.
- Tom AshdownCompletely understood, and I wouldn't ask you to. What would help me is knowing what the board needs from us, so we can get it to you early. Papers, a one-page summary, anything.
- Malcolm HebdenA short summary of the term, the total, the breakdown you will send, the data position we discussed, and what happens at the end of the term. Not more than a couple of pages. The board does not read long documents, however good.
- Tom AshdownTwo pages, I can do two pages. Leave that with me. I'll do a draft and send it to Rebecca and yourself, and you can tell me what's wrong with it.
- Rebecca AinsworthHe will.
- Malcolm HebdenI shall be gentle.
- Tom AshdownHa. Appreciated. Then the other thing on timing is the implementation. Once there's a signed order form, we start. Marcus will run it with you, and he'll want a named person on your side for each source, who can answer questions about how the system works and who can say yes when we ask for access.
- Rebecca AinsworthI can do the member services side myself. For the policy and claims systems, I'll need someone from IT, and I'd be guessing if I named them now. Let me find out who has the time.
- Tom AshdownThat's the thing that most often slows us down, to be honest. Not the technology. Just finding a person with an hour or two. So if you can line that up before the signature, we start faster.
- Rebecca AinsworthI'll ask this week. I'll tell them it's a small ask to begin with.
- Malcolm HebdenMay I ask about the people side? Underwriting and claims have not been in these conversations. Will they feel this has been done to them?
- Rebecca AinsworthThat's a worry of mine too. I've spoken to the heads of both, informally, and they're curious rather than hostile. Claims is a bit wary, to be fair. They don't want anyone thinking the system will decide anything about a claim.
- Tom AshdownAnd it doesn't. It's a way of seeing what's already there and asking questions about it. It doesn't decide or recommend an outcome on a claim. I wouldn't want anyone to think otherwise, and I'd happily say so to those teams directly if it helps.
- Rebecca AinsworthIt would, actually. A short session, maybe, before we go live. I'd never promise a claims outcome to anyone and I don't want the tool to look like it does.
- Tom AshdownThen let's get something in the diary for that. Marcus and I can both come, or he can lead, whichever you prefer.
- Rebecca AinsworthBoth, to start with. They'll want to see the person with the job title.
- Tom AshdownHa, fair enough.
- Malcolm HebdenA further point on the contract. I assume there will be a master agreement in addition to the order form.
- Tom AshdownYes. The order form sits under our master agreement. I'll send you both, and your legal people can go through them in their own time. If anything in the agreement is a problem, tell me early, and I'll sort out who on our side needs to look at it. I'd rather find out in December than the week we're meant to sign.
- Malcolm HebdenA sensible approach. Our solicitors are cautious, as they should be. They will ask about liability and about what happens to the data if we leave.
- Tom AshdownWhich is where the Snowflake point helps you, because it's your data in your account. If you ended the contract, the data's still yours, sitting where it always sat. What goes away is the layer we built on top, and we'd cover that in the paperwork. I won't paraphrase the exact wording from memory, but that's the principle.
- Malcolm HebdenThat is a considerably better answer than I have had from some suppliers. Thank you.
- Tom AshdownCheers, Malcolm.
- Rebecca AinsworthCan I ask something slightly different? About how people actually use it day to day. I keep imagining the relationship managers. They're not technical. Half of them still print things out.
- Tom AshdownThat's the best kind of user, honestly. They just type what they'd ask a colleague. 'What's happened with this school over the past year?' and it pulls the policy, the claims, the calls and the emails together, and tells you where it found each thing, so you can check. Want me to show you? I've got that example from the demo.
- Rebecca AinsworthPlease, just briefly.
- Tom AshdownThere. So I asked about a sample community hall, and you can see it's listed the policy renewal, two earlier calls, and a note from claims. Each line links back to where it came from.
- Rebecca AinsworthAnd if one of those is wrong? Say a note was entered against the wrong policy?
- Tom AshdownThen it'll show you the wrong thing, with the source next to it, so you can see where the error started. It doesn't fix the underlying record, that's still yours to correct. But people spot problems a lot faster once they can see all of it in one place. I'd say that's a side benefit nobody expects.
- Rebecca AinsworthThat makes sense. It'll show us up a bit, probably.
- Tom AshdownA bit, yeah. In a useful way.
- Malcolm HebdenIf I may return to money for a moment, since we are on the subject of what it exposes. Could you tell me about additional users? If we find the team grows, or if claims wants more seats than we have planned.
- Tom AshdownGrowth comes with a number of users included, and you can add more in blocks. I'll put the current figures and the cost of a block in the note. I'd rather not give you a number from memory, you'd only hold me to it, and quite right too.
- Malcolm HebdenVery good. And would any such addition be fixed at the same rate for the remainder of the term?
- Tom AshdownThat's a good question and I don't know the answer for certain. I'll find out and say so in writing.
- Malcolm HebdenThank you. I would rather you said that than guessed.
- Rebecca AinsworthTom, what about the training? I'm thinking of the helpline team, who'll need to feel confident, not just relationship managers.
- Tom AshdownTraining is part of the early weeks. Marcus runs sessions with each group, and we shape them around what that team does. The helpline team would have their own, built around the calls they take. There's also an option for a training day on site if you'd rather have us in the room, but that's an extra and I'd want to confirm the cost before suggesting a number.
- Rebecca AinsworthI'd probably want a day in the room for the helpline. It's a different atmosphere when people can ask the daft questions.
- Tom AshdownThere are no daft questions, but I take your meaning. I'll add it as an option in the note, separate from the main total, so it doesn't muddy the figure Malcolm's looking at.
- Malcolm HebdenI appreciate that separation. Options priced apart from the total make the board's decision cleaner.
- Tom AshdownRight. Is there anything in the proposal you'd change if you could? Anything that made you wince on the way through?
- Rebecca AinsworthNot wince. I'd want the wording about who our sponsor is to be clearer. At the moment it makes it sound as though I'm the only person it depends on, and if I'm off for a month, then what?
- Tom AshdownThat's a good catch. It's a risk for us too, honestly. If it hangs on one person, it hangs on one person. So who would you want alongside you?
- Rebecca AinsworthI'd say a senior person from underwriting and one from claims, and Malcolm as the senior voice on the cost side.
- Malcolm HebdenI am content to be named, provided it is understood that I am sponsoring the value question, not the day to day.
- Tom AshdownThat's exactly how I'd write it. Small group, meets with Marcus around the quarterly review, and Rebecca runs the day to day.
- Rebecca AinsworthYes. That feels more robust.
- Tom AshdownGood. I'll amend the proposal. Anything else on scope?
- Malcolm HebdenOne thing, on service. If B-Viz is unavailable, or if the information is out of date when a relationship manager needs it, what do we have in writing?
- Tom AshdownThere are service levels for Growth: availability, how quickly we respond to a serious problem, and the nightly refresh, so people start the day with yesterday's data. I'd rather send the exact wording than paraphrase it. And there are service credits for availability under Growth, I'll make sure that's spelled out. Freshness is a distinction I'd want to be straight with you about, so you know precisely what is and isn't covered.
- Malcolm HebdenThen it would be helpful to have that stated plainly. I prefer a clear limit to a vague assurance.
- Tom AshdownYou'll get it plain. Promise.
- Rebecca AinsworthCan we do a quick recap, before we run out of time? I'd like to be sure I've got my own list right.
- Tom AshdownPlease. Yes. Let me say mine and you correct me. I send a note after this call with the breakdown of the £123,600: implementation, then the subscription for each of the two years. It says whether the price holds across the term, how additional users work, the service levels, and the optional training day priced separately.
- Malcolm HebdenAnd the payment timing, against our financial year, once I have told you what it is.
- Tom AshdownYes, thanks. I'll also draft the two-page summary for the board, and amend the proposal so the sponsor group is named, you, Malcolm, and a senior person each from underwriting and claims. And I send the master agreement and the order form draft for your solicitors.
- Rebecca AinsworthMine is: find out who in IT can help with the policy and claims systems, draft a short list of things we'd want to see change, and talk to Malcolm about one cost measure. And we set up the session with underwriting and claims.
- Malcolm HebdenMine is to send Tom our year end, to read the summary when it arrives, and to ask the board secretary how the board's meetings fall relative to your target of 3 Jan 2024. I make no promise as to the outcome.
- Tom AshdownWhich is exactly right. And Marcus and I will find a time for a proper introduction, probably next week. Rebecca, I'll check with your diary rather than guess.
- Rebecca AinsworthMornings are better for me.
- Tom AshdownMornings, noted.
- Malcolm HebdenMay I say one last thing? I have been through this with other suppliers, and what I have valued about this process is that you have said when you did not know something. I would ask that it continues.
- Tom AshdownThat's kind, Malcolm, and it will. I'd far rather tell you I'll confirm than get it wrong and have you find out in the contract.
- Rebecca AinsworthThank you, Tom. This has been a good one. I feel better about it than I did an hour ago.
- Tom AshdownBrilliant. Thank you both. I'll get the note out to you shortly. Enjoy the rest of your afternoon, and Rebecca, I hope the church secretary gets her roof sorted.
- Rebecca AinsworthSo do I. Kind regards, both.
- Malcolm HebdenThank you, both. Goodbye.
- Tom AshdownCheers all. Speak soon.
Callsmade from